Great post. Giants fans have been looking for a scapegoat all year to justify getting Hayden Birdsong into the rotation. First, it was Justin Verlander, before they finally realized, hey, wait, maybe he IS pitching well, just not getting the breaks or run support. Then it was Robby Ray, who kept getting shredded early in games, couldn’t get past the fourth inning, before realizing, oh, well, he did have to pitch in thunderstorms and freezing conditions. And then, the realization that, dang, the Giants have won all his starts, and, geez, look at how he dominates hitters.
Hicks has also had to pitch in bad weather, has not had run support, is getting tough breaks on ground balls getting through, and, yes, the occasional bad pitch selection (i put some of that on Patrick Bailey, who just doesn’t read hitters well, but that shouldn’t be a surprise: he’s one of the worst hitters in MLB).
Melvin has obviously been talking off the record with beat writers about Hicks, and they’re taking their cues, jumping on the conventional wisdom bandwagon to push for his ouster. Did anyone notice the two home runs Birdsong gave up, the first of which helped explode Hicks’s numbers more?
Yes, we are a results oriented people, but we seem to never heed the warning about asking what we wish for.
I’d be curious to know the substance of the agreement the Giants have with Hicks re: him being a starter. Was it an unconditional, “sure, come join our starting rotation”? Or was there some wiggle room for the Giants, like “sure, if it works out you can be a starter; but if the time comes that we don’t think it’s working out, we’ll move you back to the ‘pen.” That’s kind of a long winded way of asking, “how much rope does Hicks have as a starter?”
I can't imagine that the contract requires that he be a starter. He's paid to pitch and he belongs in the pen where hopefully he can regain his effectiveness.
Jordan Hicks has had a full year to prove he is a capable starter. He has been terrible after his first few games last year. Birdsong is a young starter with higher potential than Hicks and a short resume. That's where good young starters come from. He and Harrison are the future. If both of them prove incapable of starting (you can include Whis here also) you might as well write of the Giants for the next few years. In the words of Bill Parcells, you are what your record says you are and Hicks record says he is not a starter.
I think you’re spot on about questioning Hicks starting when Roupp looks like he could get pulled from the rotation as well. I think replacing either might see a game or 2 improvement with the replacement P but going forward?
That said it’s been more of when Hicks is walking batters or giving up that inopportune hit. Two things I’ve noticed about Hicks this year. That 15 lbs of added muscle is noticeable just looking at him. He looks like someone that can throw the velocity he does and break 100. Last year was more like wow, that skinny guy can really throw. Now, is that added muscle having something to do with the second thing?
Second thing is his control. To me more often than not he appears effectively wild. Reminds me of Doval when he’s that way too. Hicks seems to get into things with batters where he just can’t throw a strike. It happens too often. I wasn’t paying attention so much yesterday but I’ve seen games where he isn’t coming anywhere close to hitting his spots. Seemed like Bailey or Huff would give up and just give him a middle of the zone spot because they had no idea where it was going and they had a better chance of catching it that way. Verlander had that issue too till his last 2 outings. Verlander looks locked in now and other Giants Ps would do well to take note of how he covers 1B and gets there when it’s required. I’m looking at every Giants P not named Verlander on failing to get to 1B when needed. Learn to play your position. You’re not done when you’ve released the ball.
So for both Roupp and Hicks, what’s the answer? Grant Brisbee had thoughts on Hicks about maybe an opener or maybe skipping his next start. Some kind of reset. Something. I think to pull Hicks into the pen now, if you aren’t happy with his pitching now are you going to be happy and feel confident with him coming into a game from the pen? Roupp could probably go down to triple A and figure it out if that seems necessary. With Hicks I’ll feel more confident about him when he appears to pass the eye test. Right now he’s not.
It’s not because Birdsong, Harrison and Whis are not guaranteed to be better than Hicks that we shouldn’t try them out. Webb was far from guaranteed to be a reasonably fairly mediocre ML starter, much less an ace. Farhan and Kapler for all their problems gave Webb the chance.
Maybe now isn’t the time yet to pull Hicks, I agree Roupp’s spot is up first. I love Roupp and believe in him but there are promising guys waiting.
Still, Hicks’ leash can’t be 4 years just because that’s what we agreed upon. The Giants certainly signed Zito to be their ace for 7 years, can you imagine if we had stuck with him in the rotation til the end just cuz? (That said, Zito is forgiven and his contract was all worth it after the 2012 playoffs)
Great post. Giants fans have been looking for a scapegoat all year to justify getting Hayden Birdsong into the rotation. First, it was Justin Verlander, before they finally realized, hey, wait, maybe he IS pitching well, just not getting the breaks or run support. Then it was Robby Ray, who kept getting shredded early in games, couldn’t get past the fourth inning, before realizing, oh, well, he did have to pitch in thunderstorms and freezing conditions. And then, the realization that, dang, the Giants have won all his starts, and, geez, look at how he dominates hitters.
Hicks has also had to pitch in bad weather, has not had run support, is getting tough breaks on ground balls getting through, and, yes, the occasional bad pitch selection (i put some of that on Patrick Bailey, who just doesn’t read hitters well, but that shouldn’t be a surprise: he’s one of the worst hitters in MLB).
Melvin has obviously been talking off the record with beat writers about Hicks, and they’re taking their cues, jumping on the conventional wisdom bandwagon to push for his ouster. Did anyone notice the two home runs Birdsong gave up, the first of which helped explode Hicks’s numbers more?
Yes, we are a results oriented people, but we seem to never heed the warning about asking what we wish for.
I’d be curious to know the substance of the agreement the Giants have with Hicks re: him being a starter. Was it an unconditional, “sure, come join our starting rotation”? Or was there some wiggle room for the Giants, like “sure, if it works out you can be a starter; but if the time comes that we don’t think it’s working out, we’ll move you back to the ‘pen.” That’s kind of a long winded way of asking, “how much rope does Hicks have as a starter?”
I can't imagine that the contract requires that he be a starter. He's paid to pitch and he belongs in the pen where hopefully he can regain his effectiveness.
Jordan Hicks has had a full year to prove he is a capable starter. He has been terrible after his first few games last year. Birdsong is a young starter with higher potential than Hicks and a short resume. That's where good young starters come from. He and Harrison are the future. If both of them prove incapable of starting (you can include Whis here also) you might as well write of the Giants for the next few years. In the words of Bill Parcells, you are what your record says you are and Hicks record says he is not a starter.
I think you’re spot on about questioning Hicks starting when Roupp looks like he could get pulled from the rotation as well. I think replacing either might see a game or 2 improvement with the replacement P but going forward?
That said it’s been more of when Hicks is walking batters or giving up that inopportune hit. Two things I’ve noticed about Hicks this year. That 15 lbs of added muscle is noticeable just looking at him. He looks like someone that can throw the velocity he does and break 100. Last year was more like wow, that skinny guy can really throw. Now, is that added muscle having something to do with the second thing?
Second thing is his control. To me more often than not he appears effectively wild. Reminds me of Doval when he’s that way too. Hicks seems to get into things with batters where he just can’t throw a strike. It happens too often. I wasn’t paying attention so much yesterday but I’ve seen games where he isn’t coming anywhere close to hitting his spots. Seemed like Bailey or Huff would give up and just give him a middle of the zone spot because they had no idea where it was going and they had a better chance of catching it that way. Verlander had that issue too till his last 2 outings. Verlander looks locked in now and other Giants Ps would do well to take note of how he covers 1B and gets there when it’s required. I’m looking at every Giants P not named Verlander on failing to get to 1B when needed. Learn to play your position. You’re not done when you’ve released the ball.
So for both Roupp and Hicks, what’s the answer? Grant Brisbee had thoughts on Hicks about maybe an opener or maybe skipping his next start. Some kind of reset. Something. I think to pull Hicks into the pen now, if you aren’t happy with his pitching now are you going to be happy and feel confident with him coming into a game from the pen? Roupp could probably go down to triple A and figure it out if that seems necessary. With Hicks I’ll feel more confident about him when he appears to pass the eye test. Right now he’s not.
It’s not because Birdsong, Harrison and Whis are not guaranteed to be better than Hicks that we shouldn’t try them out. Webb was far from guaranteed to be a reasonably fairly mediocre ML starter, much less an ace. Farhan and Kapler for all their problems gave Webb the chance.
Maybe now isn’t the time yet to pull Hicks, I agree Roupp’s spot is up first. I love Roupp and believe in him but there are promising guys waiting.
Still, Hicks’ leash can’t be 4 years just because that’s what we agreed upon. The Giants certainly signed Zito to be their ace for 7 years, can you imagine if we had stuck with him in the rotation til the end just cuz? (That said, Zito is forgiven and his contract was all worth it after the 2012 playoffs)